Wasn't the old First National Bank Building and tower next door to the Hilton supposedly being re-purposed for housing?

Has work stopped on that?

No, work progresses, though, like many current area projects, it does so at a snails pace.

All that I can tell has happened there, in over 2 years, is the ending of the lease for The Ground Floor and now I can't get a decent cup of coffee downtown. The stroll to The Ground Floor around 9 o'clock used to be a highlight of my day. Progress? I think not. BTW, most snails I know are insulted by the comparison bob has made.

Seriously, the pace of the work on the building on the southwest corner of Main and Wall tells us all we need to know about the demand for downtown housing.

I think this is the only time "if you build it they will come" will every apply to a project in Midland. Housing is in such a demand in Midland that someone will live in downtown. People need places to live here. We have people living out at RV parks and crack hotels because they can't find anywhere to live. This seems like a win win situation to me because office space is not in demand, and housing is... so why not convert offices to housing?

Afterwards, when oil goes down, ya some people will leave, but there has to be some people here who long for urban living setting (including me). Even though people will move away, it would be like that everywhere... apartments, houses, hotels, etc... I think though that these will catch on.

Some more questions Wals ;

What will be the price per square foot BE for these downtown condos ?

How large are they ?

Where's the parking ?

Is the city considering cobbling together a Downtown Midland Condo Owners Association..complete with dues ?

What will the rules for ownership be ?

Since the city is so gung-ho for affordable housing..is this part of the plan or is it going to become a "golden cash-cow" ?

If this IS to be "affordable or low-income housing"..how do you intend to explain this to other property owners in the downtown area ?

If you are going for upscale dollars are you going to show the gentry the benefits of living a stones throw from the jail etc ? ..Don't forget that the busses will stop right in front of their building so remember to describe them as state-of the-art personell carriers .

Oh , who again is paying for all this ?

I think this is the only time "if you build it they will come" will every apply to a project in Midland. Housing is in such a demand in Midland that someone will live in downtown. People need places to live here.

Fair enough. But to the west and the north whole subdivisions are being laid out and built as fast as is possible.

At the same time downtown housing awaits a "game changing" paradigm of some sort.

In your opinion what is that paradigm shift likely to be?

Why are the housing "pros" building subdivision after subdivision while the housing diletantes are still talking about the need for a game changer?

Don't forget the East, Wals !

Just 2 years ago my youngest had a house built in Greenwood for (what I consider) a bunch of bucks and now the subdivision just keeps on building !
Nonstop !

Oh, am I the only one to see this ? The quaint "family oriented" community to our east, and comprised of a LOT of Midland Police and Fireguys, seems to be the size of Midland area wise.

Build it and they will come .Okay ..BUT..Build it at a reasonable price and offer lower taxes and a school system that demands it's students learn and
build it in an area where neighbor looks out for neighbor ..and it's just a short hop to your job in Midland..Which would be your choice ????

Greenwood has LOTSA room for growth and new housing is EVERYWHERE !

I do not want to disparage Midland (as I have lived here almost thirty years and here will most probably be the place I draw my last breath )as our town is chock full of good people ..But WHY this Jones over Downtown !

In case you haven't noticed WE'RE MAKING IT SMALLER ! Buildings are coming down ! The IMPLOSION of the big blue building on Wall and Colorado is imminent( I've got a ringside seat for this from my parking space downtown and I'm thinking of renting a SUV and selling seats and popcorn ,cokes and stuff..hmmm... maybe I could "auction" those seats...I digress..)

Building housing downtown is..silly . Really .

My house is close enough to be considered "downtown" But what we are talking about are condos on "Ground Zero". . . and there is NO infrastructure to support those who MIGHT move there ....Oh yeah , BAH !

Truthfully, our leadership is still married to the outcomes of the latest consultant study on Downtown, especially when it comes to the "Game Changer." Having actually read the urban design tome by Jane Jacobs "The Death and Life of Great American Cities," on which these plans are based, this idea of a 24 hour a day mixed use downtown is pretty much impossible, because the population densities required just don't exist here. However, outside planners and consultants get wrapped up in trying to apply these principles, because local downtown Evangelists tell them that is what they want, and Midland's downtown gives a false impression of urbanism.

Midland's downtown was never urbanism...it was petro dollar inflated egotism. Which means it can't easily be converted...or it would have already happened.

As for the "800 Lb Gorilla" I think it is the general disconnect between City Government, Economic Development Forces, the Public and our new economic and community reality.

I say community reality, because in many ways Midland is rapidly becoming devoid of the cohesive agents necessary to have a thriving civic identity. In short Midland is becoming balkanized, which has made it very difficult for our leaders to make good decisions in almost all areas of community development.

Don't believe the balkanization of Midland...well used to there were just two high schools and everyone's kids from Oil Barons and Doctors to Welders and Derek Hands went to school together. Now there are 7 or 8 high schools plus scores of home schooled kids. Our schools and our community is worse for this, and I blame the State, the Feds the, and the weak school boards and community activists who crippled MISD with lawsuits and divisiveness.

Culturally, with the exception of Summer Mummers, there really isn't a community event that is unique and essiential for Midlanders to embrace culturally. Generally, our largest events in town aren't geared for the whole community. Most are ethnic centric like MexTex or Scottish Festivals, themed like Celebration of the Ats, fundraisers like SeptemberFest, or knock offs like lawn concerts. I'm not saying these events aren't great, they are. There just isn't a sense that building Community identity is even a goal.

Community isn't built by large events. It's built by church services, t-ball and soccer games and the like. I'm not too worried about Midland losing its sense of community. MISD will evolve like all the other area institutions, call it balkanization if you like, it beats segregation which still cast a shadow over much of this town. Do we need a thriving civic identity?

I do think we are short on 'agents' who have the big picture in mind. I'd like to see downtown be a place that at the minimum, gets a little better over time rather than a little worse.

It's what I get for reading various essays by Steyn and Buchanan before I post here! I was probably a little too negative, but I grew up in the period of forced busing and the cluster system, and fully integrated high schools. I am very much a post segregationist, and I generally dismiss those arguments that try and raise its legitimacy in modern Midland. That battle was won over three generations ago (X, Y & Millennial) and it is being lost in society as a whole because of self segregation.....thankfully Midland only suffers the mild forms of this, but it exists.

I was going to get to your point about churches, but with 90% of the citizens of Midland not in a church, and with organizations like Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts having severe membership problems, the trend is not wholly positive.

I think churches are too busy healing themselves from neglect and fighting the culture at large that the building of a true ecumenical community with the soul of Midland as its target audience is stalled in the hearts of a few progressive ministers because of other pressing issues.

As for scouting and other community youth programs, most of these are flagging due to the increase in school sponsored activities and declining numbers and involvement of parents who do more than "show up."

I tend to discount youth sports as community builders because outside the team your child is on, there is no socialization and youth sports don't exactly have community building as a pillar of their existence. I loved youth sports, but I can only remember one or two kids from my soccer teams, or my little league teams, but I can name most of my old Boy Scout Troop, half of my elementary school mates, and almost all of the "honors kids" from High School.

As for the need for a civic identity, I think it is what is missing from everything attempted with Midland in the past 40 years. All these plans for downtown or community development seem to center around somebody else's plan that worked in some other community that isn't really like Midland, but kind of looks like Midland due to our aberrations of architecture.

I'm not hopeless. Midland has a spirit, it exists and there are many citizens and community leaders that can tap it. However, there are more Midlanders who are not plugged in, and some of our community leaders seem to have forgotten we are a community of the whole rather than a group of constituents in a certain part of town. I think the lack of 'agents' is really the key to this whole mess...

add to above, I'm not advocating the current MDC/MDDC, TIRZ or downtown Midland go spend a bunch to implement some misguided plan. What I do wish would happen is that all the entities that will continue to spend some money downtown, property owners, schools, city local and federal government, churches, etc., do so with some guidance and vision as t how they can improve not just the parts but the whole area, which really can simply come down to good communication and leadership with a realistic big picture vision. Not nearly as glamorous as one big flashy project.

What would be Midland's 'civic identity'?

I think it would pretty much be a relatively nice single family home on a quiet street. Not much different than 1000 other small towns and suburbs.

Ahhhh... so if we are like a 1000 other small towns and suburbs, then why do our plans seem to have an urban feel? We have this downtown, so we must be urban, seems to be the 'civic identity' that gets tried on the most, but it fits like a poorly tailored suit.

Our leadership is in a loop, and not just on downtown, but economic development too.

I guess with $125 bbl oil everybody will have enough money to pay for their bad decisions in the short term.....we're currently living with the bad development and economic decisions of the early 80s and the 60s, but hey, they had the money to do those kind of things back then, so I guess it was OK.

Such negativity on our Downtown! Now that the Wall Street project has spawned all the sidewalk cafes, street-food vendors, and strolling mimes, I think it's only a matter of time before the downtown condos and lofts draw in the eclectic and bohemian mix of well-heeled oldsters and hip young trendoids who crave a vibrant urban experience like only Midland's .75 square miles of city center can provide. I can only imagine that by this time next year we'll be seeing fur-coated blue-hairs walking their expensive toy dogs in front of the Christian Science Reading Room, side by side with vaguely ethnic youths in kicky berets heading to a poetry slam at the nearby artists' performance space.

Right on Ospurt !

If the government came in and said the entire downtown Midland area suffered from "Black Mold" and had to be razed and all businesses must move to another location and all the tall buildings came down and then all those guys in hazmat suits left..and the emergency was over...
Do you think ANYBODY would rebuild a tall building there again ?

Oooooooh I LIKE your thinking MV !
Let's not forget the lovely 20somethings in their sassy glam tossing spare change to the beggars on Wall while waiting for admittance to the newest trendy club .

To pass time whilst waiting for the theater to open you might have your picture done in charcoal by one of our many street artists.

And to be charitable , donate a shopping cart to the Downtown Midland Bag Ladies Association and feel good about yourself !

Yas ,Yas , I feel better already !

Wait until you see the subway system!

Hello,
I am going to give everyone here an outsiders perspective. I am not from Midland but Goldsmith and after leaving home after high school I have never moved back. Now I am in my mid twenties and single. I plan on moving back to Midland at the end of the year.

I was in Midland last year visiting my brother and we went to see the renovation on the First National Bank Building. I was with a group of friends who all live in Midland or Odessa and everyone was excited about this. A girl I was with who had just graduated from tech and moved back to Odessa said once they were finished she was going to rent there for sure. Of course we didnt expect there to be trendy clubs and bohemian culture in downtown but for a young person moving back to work in midland odessa it gives a unique living option that potentially could be really cool. Of course that demographic is not as big as the family with 2.1 kids, lives off the loop and eats at chilies demographic but I think it is a misrepresented population in Midland. To neglect that population is not in Midland's interest.

For Example, I have a friend who graduated from Tech Law and worked for a petroleum firm in Midland but is originally from Houston. He told me he was moving back to Houston because Midland was terrible. He said, "why is every bar in this town in a strip mall?"

I just think to neglect the downtown is a tragedy. To me so much potential exists there. Yes, its not for everyone but living in the northwest part of town next to Wall Mart and chain restaurant X isnt either. As an outsider it is the only unique thing I see about the city. The rest of it looks like every other suburb I have ever been throughout America. What is so terrible about renovating the staple of the city and attracting young people to work in a city that has 2.4 percent unemployment?

OK, Im ready for attacks.
JW

Jason, the problem I have with the whole idea of downtown development isn't that it shouldn't be done, it is that the City, Chamber and Economic Development Board should quit trying to force a systemic change in what downtown is by applying the "Dead Hand of Government" to the project. We've kept a bushel full of out-of-town consultants flush with fees for studies and reports that have proved unworkable.

Besides, the 2.4% unemployment isn't in the typical college educated single demographic either. Sure there are professional jobs in sales, law, and some in engineering, but by and large jobs like payroll, auditing, office support, human resources, finance, and large scale engineering support that fit the downtown office / urban worker have been LONG GONE from Midland/Odessa and if Key Energy and Basic Services are any indication, they won't be back.

Most of the jobs out here are field jobs, equipment sales and manufacturing jobs or retail.

If Midland had jobs that were attracting the single young professionals in droves, those downtown loft conversions that have been going on for close to 5 years would have been completed and rented 2 years ago without the need for a single taxpayer dollar.

Jason, what you feel as needs be done to downtown Midland is your opinion and desire .I understand, and am comfortable with that .
But a young fella like yourself needs to realize that while you are starting off your life with all your hopes and dreams, some of us geezers continue to have hopes and dreams too.. of keeping government AWAY from us so we may have some decent quality of life without being taxed out of our homes .
Some of us older folks have not had the chance to have an education such as yours ..and your "earning power" is much greater than was mine in my prime . I can go on Ad Nauseum ..but
I think you might understand.
My problem ..and the other contributors problem, stems from City Government crying that lofts and the "vibrancy of downtown" is a city-wide problem and as such, needs MY (OUR) tax dollars to make it work.
Jason , you're from around here so you should certainly know about the free enterprise system..
If there was TRULY something to be had with a trendy downtown..where are the investors ? If there was any chance at all of creating a new market by building a cosmopolitan downtown Midland ,we'd have investors here thicker than flies on a turd. Think about it .

Build it and they will come..but forcing a gun to my head to collect revenue to build your Field of Dreams will NOT cut it.

I wish you well on your endeavors, young man, and when you come to Midland maybe you can use some of those college smarts to create a wonderful place called "Downtown Midland"..without , of course , using my tax money,.

Jason , I enjoyed your contribution and please don't be a stranger here .
I think I speak for all .

I think downtown Midland is unique, and it has potential. It took Houston and Dallas about three decades to really get downtown housing to thrive, I think it's only fair to give downtown investors and future residents more than 5 years before totally dismissing the idea. I think it will happen. It's a housing type that more and more people are comfortable with. It's a small group, and the future Grassland and Permian estates of Midland have nothing to fear. But it's happened in many Texas cities like Midland.

Again, I am not suggesting the city spend public funds to make all this happen. It needs to happen privately. And it will. The residential market in Midland has finally throne off the albatross of the 80's bust, and it appears the commercial office real estate market is about to do the same, which is great.

If it (the downtown development of housing) happens privately then this whole thread is moot.

And Jason, I hope that you won't consider this an attack, but when you say that "for you so much potential exists [downtown]" I am guessing that you are not saying that you are poised to begin building some of these condos in order to take advantage of that potential that you see, rather you are saying the someone else should take the leap and begin building them.

Which is why I am still asking the question: Why are the housing pros building so much stuff but won't touch downtown? And if downtown housing must be subsidized is there really that great a demand for it?

The old First National Bank Building and Tower was slated for exactly this re-purposing but how many whole city blocks have been laid out and built in the time that this project was first announced?

What would be the "game changer" to get that already announced project of high-center?

I am afraid that the only weapon in the City/MDC arsenal is a subsidy. Is the project waiting on that?

Hello once again,
I just wanted to address a few things that were said.

First, I agree that it is not the responsibility of the Midland tax payer to fund projects downtown which will not necessarily benifit all citizens. If it is economically viable for there to be a viabrant city center then it will happen. I think it is the responsibility of the city government to nudge this forward where it is feasible but not drain the city coffers to do so.

I would like to discuss the demographic of young people that are moving to midland. I in no way disagree with the fact that most jobs that exist are driving a water truck for Key in the oil field. The thinking is that this demographic might be young but they arent the types that are drawn to midland by urban living options and a viabrant downtown. However there is another side to this story. The booming oil field brings to midland not just water haulers. It also brings a more affluent population. I am not talking about the engineers or accountants that work for Apache or Burlington. I am talking about the people that move there as entrepreneurs. I myself graduated from West Point and I am not moving back to Midland to work in a downtown office in a professional capacity. I am moving there to work IN the oil field because that is where a guy can make the most money. So many young people share this attitude and I almost compare whats happening today to my father's generation which moved to Odessa and Midland from all over the U.S. in the 1970's. How does that relate to downtown Midland? Well I just wanted to say that if downtown midland had living options there would be a demographic it could cater too.

As far as the comment that I expect "someone else" to develope downtown I dont agree with this. Housing is so outragiously priced right now in midland. To live in a nice house I am going to pay 250+. To live in a nice apartment (briarwood0 i am going to pay 1000+ a month. I told my brother to start looking for a cheap defunct property in or within a block or two from downtown that i can buy and live in, possibly a vacant one or two floor building. This might not happen if I cant find the right property but I consider this an option. I can renovate it, live in it and once I decide to build or buy a real house i know I can rent it. So even though I dont have the money to create a "game changer" maybe I am a tiny piece of the overall economic situation that could lead to a renovation of downtown. Or maybe I am crazy.

I am sorry to write so long but I am in Afghanistan right now and i am so excited about moving back to west texas that I really enjoy expressing my thoughts to my future neighbors.

JW

What future housing that might exist downtown should not be compared to the subdivisions going up north and west of the loop. You are comparing a niche specialty product to a commodity. They don't function the same way-just like you don't see a new Saddle Club or Racquet Club being developed everyday. These higher end areas aren't built by the same 'pros' (HA!).

I think Jason has a great idea. Many successful urban/warehouse housing areas around came about by folks who threw out convention and made a livable, personal, enviable home for themselves in structures that had outlived their original use.

Soon, oilmen will look out their office windows and see apartment units occupied by young families, singles and businessmen. And though that may strike them as odd at first, the infusion of more people into their environment will rescue it from aesthetic and functional malaise and decay.

First at ClayDesta, then at downtown Midland.

I've said before that the biggest current impediment to new residential development downtown (apartments, condos) is the splintered ownership of the numerous little properties, it's difficult to do anything large scale, but certainly possible.

From Instapundit today:

My question - is it unreasonable to wonder whether the low European birth rates can be tied to their living arrangements? I have lived in Manhattan with two kids, and in the suburbs with more than two. Trust me, or try it for yourself - the suburbs are easier to manage when lots of kids are in the picture.

Or try this simple census survey - how many couple can you think of that met in the cities, had children, and moved to the suburbs? Now, how many couples have kids in the suburbs and then move with them into the city? Hmm...

Related and sort of relevant.

I read an article a while back highlighting a small but growing trend of families moving into inner cities. They figure the extra cost is a fair trade for the extra time they get to spend with their families rather than commuting.

But that would be neither relative or relevant to Midland.

Rush minute seems to be spread pretty evenly around town these days.

The way to solve this problem?

Vote for Jerry Morales!!!!!!

Didn't Jerry Morales serve on the MDC board?

Same with Kennedy?

Immediate disqualification in my book.

Morales is a proven local entrepreneur. He's Hispanic, which brings in a critical voting base for the council's agenda to improve downtown. With the Hispanics on their side, teamed with the political mainstream, nobody will be able to stop the Council from establishing housing for low-income people downtown.

Besides, who are you gonna vote for? Some religious spook or a Wal-Mart employee? Kennedy is a badass and a great golfer. He could also provide leadership we can believe in. But, I think Morales is the war horse here.

I do remember all the low-income downtown housing that got built when Cuevas was on the council! Leadership "we can believe in???" That sure sounds familiar, in a thoroughly negative way. On the plus side, though, an upcoming local election means the Jessica's Well comment sections will heat up again!

I'm sorry Edytas but it seems, from your last entry, that you feel that Hispanics are by reason of ..Race?...low income people... , and if you happen to preach the word of God for the last 40 years and have established an active and successful church..you are a spook . But if one is a "badass" and a good golfer , he may be acceptable .

I abhor political correctness but Edytas , you go too far while destroying your point at the very same time .

Please reread your last submission and clarify for this old man your reasons behind your support for Mr Morales without the previous hyperbole , as I am interested in your thoughts on this issue .

Thank you .

Low income people can come in all shapes, sizes, and races. That's why it's important for the Hispanic voting base in Midland to participate with the political mainstream for the greater good. All too often, people in south Midland don't vote, and so their need to be heard is silenced. There are a lot of Hispanic people who are new to town here, Otto, and they don't have a place to live.

Jerry is a great guy. He's paid his dues to be on the council. People at the low income level have been neglected too long. Jerry Morales and John James are not ivory tower candidates. They'll face down radical right wing forces and leave them on the margins where they belong.

With the Hispanics on their side, teamed with the political mainstream, nobody will be able to stop the Council from establishing housing for low-income people downtown.

And if I had some ham I could make a ham sandwich...if I had some bread.

Thank you edytas for the clarification . I really have no dog in this fight for council person except for knowing a couple of the suspects . But returning to the thread , I (and most of the folks who opined here ) don't much care what is done with the downtown area ..as long as it's done with PRIVATE dollars !
NO TAX INCENTIVES !
NO BUILDING EMPTY BUILDINGS TO SHOW..er..WHAT A BUILDING WOULD LOOK LIKE DOWNTOWN !
DO NOT EXPECT ME TO FINANCE YOUR FIELD OF DREAMS !

Build what you wish downtown with your own coin and keep the profits for yourself because you earned them . And if you suddenly feel like the city is starting to put the screws to you tax-wise, you'll find a lot of new friends here .

ACH ! It's late. To bed , to bed .....BAH !

For some reason, when I read edytas_thong's comments, I hear them in my head with a caricatured hispanic accent, e.g., "the don't have a place to live" echoes in my head as "they don't have a place to leeve."

This only started happening upon reading the third comment. weird.

I may vote for the Wal-Mart employee.

Considering all that has been built in the Downtown Opportunity zone is low income housing, through Habitat, Midland Community Development and Community Development Block Grant Funds, why do we need more? Until the Palms and the Complex by MCAS opens, all the multi-family housing built in Midland since the 1980's has been low income. Until last year, all the duplexes and town homes built in Midland were for low income persons. I think Midland has bent over backward to provide for housing needs for low income persons, but that is not where the problem is at this time, and for elected officials to run on that issue is not very wise or Midland serving, in my opinion.

I think Midland has a greater problem with people who are rising above the need for housing subsidies because of the good economic times. As they become ineligible for the subsidies, they must move out of low-income apartments, duplexes and town homes into unsubsidized "workforce" housing. Well, guess what our community is missing, because builders and projects for subsidized housing, and then traditional single-family housing dominated the market. There is demand in the low-middle, but government subsidies made the low more attractive to build for...which is the problem with government programs for the poor to begin with.

There is an economic vacuum for those who make one dollar above the qualification of poor, because the subsidies for those who qualify create an artificial scarcity of affordable necessities for those who have started their journey out of poverty.

The government's answer, raise the limits of poverty and start giving them money again...modern day indentured servitude if you ask me.

a fine observation. Aside from Habitat homes, I think most of the 'low income' apartments that went up in Midland over the last 20 decades were built because their investors liked having the subsidy, to cover their risks. This is what happened in College Station in the mid nineties just prior to a HUGE apartment boom. The first ones built were HUD.

And I guess that what low income housing has been built in Downtown was built there because the land was cheaper than anywhere else and infrastructure was already in place.

And on that note, I am surprised at how much infill development is happening around town right now. It's everywhere.

On the Habitat homes, yes the homes themselves are not "subsidized" in the normal sense of the word, but the land that the homes are built on and the infrastructure improvements which are normally borne by a developer were paid for by Federal/Local Grant Dollars (i.e. taxpayer subsidies). The subsidy isn't large, or ongoing, but there were taxpayer dollars involved.

Though, if you consider the "Workforce Housing" grant the City is offering of about $4,000 a home, it would be comparable, to or maybe a little less than what was afforded the Habitat homes from the public coffers.